Wednesday, July 28, 2010

On Atheism

When I first wrote the review on Richard Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" a little more than a week ago I had no idea the pain I would feel so soon afterward concerning atheism. I feel like I have had my heart literally ripped out of my chest. Why? Because I have now had to revise my theory concerning atheism in regards to walking a path toward gnosis.

For some time now I've been following an atheist blogger by the pseudonym of Dromedary Hump(Dromedary is a breed of camel, btw) who owns the Atheist Camel blog. Bart(his real name), also wrote a book called The Atheist Camel Chronicles. It's very well received on Amazon.

Bart, who more fondly goes by the nickname "Hump" on his blog produces at least four articles a month; each article has always been a well organized attack on literalist religion. Which, as a gnostic, I'm pretty accepting of to a certain extent. Pointing out and learning from the irrational behavior and idiosyncrasies of literalists is important in growth toward gnosis. If you can't figure out where you've been then how can you identify where you want to go? Identifying those speed bumps is essential.

In Hump's blog articles I have always tried to nudge my two-cents in wherever I can as long as the topic allowed me to point out the differences between literalist and non-literalist religions. He has been shocked at times at how much I agree with him on certain topics. He has educated me on atheism and so all in all I have to say that it was a copacetic relationship up until now. Mutual teaching and learning going on between us and mutual respect concerning our difference of opinion on whether or not there is a divine presence in the universe worth revering. Until last week.

There has always been a certain ruthlessness and volatility in Hump's friend, NewEnglandBob's posted comments. This proved to be an excellent way to watch, in action, two atheists who don't necessarily agree with one another one hundred percent of the time. I considered Hump to be the more moderate atheist and NEBob to the angry militant variety-- until something snapped in Hump's head sometime last week and that last shred of sanity which was holding him back from becoming a full fledged pissed off militant atheist- left the building. It is gone. Au revoir. Never to be seen again, I fear.

The blog post titled "Those Damnable New Atheists!" was the sad train wreck which broke my heart.

During my original reading of the post I was nodding my head and agreeing with Hump right up until the last paragraph of: "But careful examination of the contributions of theists in real world terms: i.e. science and medicine by notible theists like Gregor Mendel, Christian Barnard, Jonas Salk, Albertus Magnus, Robert Grosseteste, Roger Bacon and other personages of faith were made INSPITE of their theistic superstition, not BECAUSE of it. Had they not extended themselves beyond the precepts of their religious indoctrination and the ignorant falsehoods of scripture, they’d have contributed nothing."

A red flag went up in my mind at his presumption of the brainlessness of all theists. I wrote:

Angel said...

Quote: "INSPITE of their theistic superstition, not BECAUSE of it. Had they not extended themselves beyond the precepts of their religious indoctrination and the ignorant falsehoods of scripture, they’d have contributed nothing."

Sorry, Hump, but I have to disagree with you on that part. Yes, 75% of literalist theists claw at real science like kicking and screaming jackals with nothing else to do. HOWEVER, there is something to be said about the wonderful spark of intuitive reasoning which comes from the All(Not Yahweh-remember?). This isn't in spite of anything. If the person is not listening they wont hear a damn thing and just blithely go on their merry way. But if they ARE listening then real progress can be made in all areas of science a person is working in.

Even some gnostics get deaf from time to time, because of all the material responsibilities of their lives. So we're not completely immune to this.

Granted, our republic has been twisted now to the opposite side of the spectrum, but I wonder what would have happened if Plato had not been so inspired to write on the gnostic principles he did, among other things....

Be careful who you point your finger at. Not all theists are brainless because not all theists are literalists.


A theist with the pseudonym of DSJulian began an email war with Hump and posted their dialogue in the blog post's comment area. It was vicious. I could only watch in horror as Hump and NEBob proved that atheists are just as guilty of lacking rationality and good judgment as literalists. There were gross errors in historical information being bandied about and then misinterpreted to heap more ignorance on top of everything. Like I said- train wreck.


In the end, I said good-bye. I just couldn't watch any longer. It was obvious nobody was grasping the differences between literalist and non-literalist religion. I tried, I really did. But I failed in making these distinctions clear the past few months.

"Congratulations, Hump. You have now graduated to being a militant atheist in my book.

Apres tu, Julian.

I'll let myself(and my reasoning and rational mind) out; no need to show me the door."

Hump replied:

Angel, Hmmm.. I have always been a militant atheist. Ithought you understood that.

I hate to see you go. But I will not attribute to a god, a supernatural force, or a thinking senitinel being anything having to do with life, the universe, creation etal; nor will I allow disinofrmation to go unchallenged.

It was such a door-slam-in-the-face that I didn't reply. But DSJulian did after a while. He said,

"Angel, like me, thought you were a rational, reasonable person. Obviously you are not because once you are pressed with the facts, you have to resort to name calling. And as the Hump-God gets challenged, you have to respond by getting angry and accusing others of being angry. In the meantime your anger is being clearly demonstrated by your increasingly frequent spelling and other errors. You are becoming more and more like the God you say you reject, except you don't have the power to create anything..."

The melodrama went on for a total of sixty comments before finally dying down. Hump began deleting all of DSJulian's comments around post number forty-five or so.

In the end, I have revised my theory concerning atheism on being a possible stepping stone toward gnosis. Before this whole blogstorm I thought that any atheist was capable of using their rational rejection of literalism as a catapult toward gnosis when they were ready. I stand corrected. Now I have to say that I believe only 25% moderate/calm atheists stand a chance of gnosis and under 5% of the militant atheists will ever come around. They can't get rid of their hate long enough to see through, around, or under the blindfold which is holding them captive.

Debating with atheists isn't useless or pointless. I mean, this is a person's soul we're talking about here! It's important stuff! But with what I've found so far debating with atheists is tedious and more often than not, fruitless.

Coincidentally, I picked up the book "The Dawkins Delusion?" from the library a day or so prior to this blogstorm. Once my temper settled I dug into it and attempted to make some sense out of what had happened. Finally, I would be able to read a theist's deconstruction of Dawkins's argument against God!

For the most part I was disappointed. "The Dawkins Delusion?" was a fairly superficial engagement of the numerous arguments Dawkins proposed, however it did make one valid point: you cannot keep rehashing the same old arguments over and over again with nothing new to contribute if you are a SCIENTIST and want to be taken seriously as a SCIENTIST. And no, making up new theories of "memes" and "God viruses" aren't real science. That requires lab work.

Believing in evolution does not make me a disingenuous theist, contrary to what Dawkins would have me and everyone else believe. I don't feel disingenuous. I feel pretty darn confident, actually! It is possible to be a theist and believe in the good work of science. So why does Dawkins lump all theists into the same creationist camp??? Because otherwise he'd have to admit that there is a gray area and that not all theists are "mentally deficient!" And Dawkins can't stand gray. It's either his way or nothing.

A scientist taking the pulpit seems disingenuous to me.

And on the real science front..... {This news video} about British scientists solving the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" mystery says something quite remarkable about our quest for answers. With every answer we receive from science it appears that our final answer concerning divinity is a long way off. We need to be patient and in the meantime not tear each other apart.

From how I look at the conclusion to this test it was a stalemate. The chicken could have dropped from the sky or it could have evolved. It's really kinda ironic, when you think about it! The poor creationists and evolutionist are looking at each other like, "well... crap. Now what do we do?!!"

Long story short, folks, either the divine is proven to exist or not. Science appears to be able to assist with the ongoing debate, however it seem quite hilarious to me that so far both sides have been slamming their heads into walls with the conclusion of their tests. The results are conclusive but... not. Answering one question only leads to ten more. Such is life.

5 comments:

Steve Truebluehealer said...

Certainly a cruel but nasty lesson Angel,that repeats with every militant atheist, so monotonously that one must ask the question what is the source of their seemingly irrational hate toward YOU Angel ? So much everlasting hate in such an army of people. What is the common factor? Something concealed very well.Trojan horse like. Perfect concealment practised their entire lifetime. For the purpose of inflicting cruelty on a victim.To punish the victim for what? Note coming.

JeniMac said...

IMO militant atheists are no better than the most extreme fundamentalists. They're just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Angel said...

Jeni, I agree. And yet there are some militant atheists who would verbally bludgeon you to death for calling them "fundamentalists" because to them that implies belief in something.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am TOTALLY with the "activism-to-get-stuff-accomplished" theme when it comes to human rights and all that stuff. Especially the separation between church and state. I've seen it abused in atrocious ways the past few years in my area, and personally with my own children's school. But when your only defense becomes: "you're mentally retarded for believing what you do!" then it starts to look a lot more like a bunch of whiny three-year olds in a sandbox crying and screaming that they're not getting their way- that the world doesn't bow down to their "obvious" conclusion about religion.

These New Atheists have become nothing but sandbox bullies. And where is the science to back up this theory of religious people being mentally deficient? ... that'll probably be Dawkins new book after he comes to the "new conclusion!" that all religious people home school their kids and their women don't show their knees. *sigh* Talk about beating a dead horse...

Steve Truebluehealer said...

Dawkins videos are shallow mindless spiteful abuse. That kind of audience is attracted, judged by the comments left. Remember only 1 person in a hundred makes a comment.
So the social problem is far bigger than one might think. The problem of hate induced learning disability.I feel sorry for them leading such a tortured internal life but I greatly abhor the damage they do to unsuspecting Mr and Mrs average.

Angel said...

"that kind of audience is attracted,"

exactly!

And this is why I'd love to post a few of those vids here for further discussion.

I set up a new rule for myself today. If I post one "negative" article then I have to post a positive one within six hours. Trying to even out the tone. Sheesh, I'M getting tired of the negativity!!!